Meet Your Host Steph Stock

STEPH 0:00

Hi, mom.

MOM 0:01

Hi.

STEPH 0:02

Do you remember the first time that you met my dad? The first time that you saw him?

MOM 0:07

Yeah. He saw me first.

DAD 0:10

She was cute but she was drunk all the time. She was a party girl.

STEPH 0:15

Where were you?

MOM/DAD

at the dorms

MOM 0:18

I was walking through the lobby.

STEPH 0:19

And what did he say when he came up to you?

MOM 0:22

Well, you know, he's a man of so many words. Hey, I'm sure he said Hey,

STEPH 0:29

What did you say?

MOM 0:30

I don't know, I prolly just giggled.

STEPH

You have this six foot six? Tall. I'm just gonna say it Black man. Like was that something that was new for you when you got to Milwaukee?

MOM 0:43

I mean, if anything that caught my attention, he was so tall. I mean, I knew he was Black. I'm not saying that. I don't know. I was like I said, I was more like, oh my god, six, six. I'm all of five, three. So I think that caught my attention. Probably more than that. The ‘that’ my mother refers to is my dads undeniably deep skin tone. She’s from a small town in Northern Wisconsin and when she was in high school, the population of Black people in her small town was less than 1% so, ‘that’ was definitel\y something to be noticed. And he was a basketball player. So that was cool.

STEPH 1:04

Did you guys have a first date?

MOM 1:08

Nooo, we just hung out. We had fun. I think that we first met - I don't think- it was kind of like whatever. I think we really liked each other.

MOM 1:20

umm began to like each other the summer after our freshman year. And we had spent that whole summer together. I lived in Green Bay, he lived in Milwaukee. But I would come down on the greyhound. Like every weekend, and we would we would just like hang out and have fun and do all different things. And we just really liked each other.

DAD 1:48

yeah we just drank, got I mean, hung around with you know. Her, her-- Crew. My moms crew is made up of the same group of women that she's known since grade school. Meg, Missy, Kris. They are my unofficial aunties, god mothers, and guardians and they’ve been around since the beginning.

STEPH 1:53

Were you guys dating at this point?

DAD 1:56

Naw.un- uh I don't know. I don't know. It never was, it never was defined. So I don't know how to. I don't know.

MOM 2:04

Our sophomore year was going to be starting. And so I think it was my first or second day. I think it was September 2. And I was walking home from a party. And he was playing basketball. at the court. I was at a Hartford school elementary school. And I was like, Ray, and he was like,Ray? And he was like Oh my God. And nine months later, we had a baby.

STEPH

Oh, wow.

STEPH 1:53

Were you guys dating at this point?

DAD 1:56

Naw.un- uh I don't know. I don't know. It never was, it never was defined. So I don't know how to. I don't know

DAD 2:31

I know. We had stopped talking. and then umm.. she come and she tells me that she's pregnant. I think we had stopped talking for like a , I want to say about a month, or maybe a month or two.

STEPH

Was there a fight or what happened?

DAD 2:53

She was always. She'd always get drunk and yelling about something anyway. I mean, we were like... We were 18/19 at the time. So I mean, in college, it could have just been, you know, a bunch of anything.

STEPH 3:06

How did you find out? Were you like, I don't feel well I’m gonna go to the doctor, or?

MOM 3:10

Yeah, well, I went out to a party and I got really sick after like two drinks. And I was like, that's weird. And so the next day or two days later, I went with to– what is it called? Norris Health Center?

STEPH:

Norris. Yes. The on Campus Health Center

MOM

with Missy with Missy. And I had a pregnancy test. And it told me I was pregnant. So I went back to the dorms with Missy. And she called Ray and Ray came down. And I told him and he said, Oh my god, I'm hungry. We went to the cafeteria and we ate.

STEPH 3:44

What's going through your mind when you hear this?

DAD 3:46

You know, obviously. I mean, first is it mine, you know? That's the first reaction.

STEPH 3:51

Did you ask her that? I don't know.

DAD 3:54

I'm sure I thought at the time we weren't together. You know? I mean, she told me then. Yeah, obviously, we just communicated and stayed in touch. So yeah, we got a little closer. We got a little closer after that.

STEPH 4:06

And then what do you have a conversation of like, what are we going to do?

MOM 4:11

I just think we just whatever we just lived, we just did it. And I don't know.

STEPH 4:18

And then after that, was it like you guys were together all the time? Like were you?

MOM 4:22

Oh, no, no, we just, I mean, we just everyone knew that we liked each other. Everyone knew but like, I think we're just young and we were in college and we're just like, Okay, here we go.

I didn’t ask my mom during this recording but I have asked her before, and we’ve talked about it many times. Did she ever consider other options? My mom comes from a conservative upbringing and regardless of her beliefs about a woman's right to choose, abortion was never an option for her. According to my mom, adoption wasn’t really considered either. The way she tells it, she was just living day by day and when that day came, the moment she saw me in that hospital she looked at me and said Let’s do this.

DAD 4:35

She didn't want to tell her parents. She held it from them for a long time.

STEPH 4:38

When did they find out?

MOM 4:39

When I was like seven or eight months pregnant?

STEPH 4:43

How did you hide it that whole time?

MOM 4:46

I didn't, I was in Milwaukee and I didn't go home a lot.

Home for my mom was Green Bay, WI. Green Bay is about 2 hours north of Milwaukee, with a population of about 100.000 people, few of whom were people of color back then. There’s not a whole lot happening there other than the Green Bay Packers which is the pride and joy of the town.

STEPH 4:49

Did you tell them or did they find out?

MOM

I sent a letter in the mailbox.

STEPH

You sent a letter home to tell them that you were pregnant?

MOM

Yeah.

MOM 4:57

I'll never forget it. I was at UWM. I wrote the letter I put it in the mailbox and there was some event going on at UWM. And my friends were working it. And I went down there and I'm like, oh my god just put the letter in the mailbox. Yeah. And I wanted to get back in the mailbox and get it.

STEPH 5:11

What do you write in this letter? Like mom, dad, I'm pregnant?

MOM 5:14

Um, no, I had a whole plan. I was gonna have you and then I was gonna go to work and make some money. And I had a whole plan. It didn't go like that cuz that's not how life works. But I wrote my whole plan out to them. And it wasn't, it was more just like, how do you tell them because I was the first one to go to college. And here I was having a baby and I had it in my head. Unrealistic thoughts. Like I'm gonna finish college. I'm gonna get this great job and it's gonna be really simple. And I'll just go to school. Well, it doesn't. It's not that easy.

STEPH 5:52

You were pregnant in the dorms?

MOM 5:55

Yep.Then I moved out and I lived with this girl and then I slept on a cot.

STEPH 6:01

while you were pregnant?

MOM 6:02

Yeah. But I thought it was fine. And your dad useta come over, we useta put a blanket on the floor. That's where we slept. We didn't have anything.

STEPH

Oh, my goodness. Getting an education has always been a top priority in my family. My dad comes from a long line of doctors, educators and scholars, but my mom was the first in her family to go to college. My moms parents are children of farmers and lumber workers, who moved to the city and became industrial workers themselves. My grandparents, Jim and Kathy, met when they were 18 years old while working at the local paper mill, and other than my grandpa serving as a medic in the US air force, they spent their entire lives, earning a living and working at the factory until they retired. My grandparents on both sides of my family played a big role in raising me. Afterall, my 19 year old parents were still kids themselves. If my grandparents were ever disappointed about my mom having a child young and out of wedlock, I never knew. I was surrounded by so much love growing up, I never had to question if I belonged. My grandfather, especially, my mom’s dad, made sure that I knew that I was wanted and that I never had to want for anything.

MOM

When I had you I didn't have a place to stay. So I stayed at Frederick also. But Chris and Missy's And Megs and Kelsey and Tracy's house. It was a party house. Your crib was in the front hall. And we stayed on a futon. Me, you and your, me you and your dad.

STEPH 6:35

My dad was there too?

MOM 6:37

Yep. And then about a week or two af-- No, maybe like two weeks after that. Grandpa came down. And grandpa just said no matter what, we're going to do this. I got you. And she's ours. And that was all that was ever said. And here you are.

STEPH 7:00

I was just curious. Like, when they found out that you were pregnant? Did it ever cross your mind or cross their mind? Like, oh, wait, like, this baby's gonna be multiracial. Like, I'm having a Black baby.

MOM 7:13

Yeah, I think that Grandpa, you know how he was. He just didn't really, It didn't matter. But grandma was more. And it wasn't a negativity it was just more like, this is not what we expected. Like, she's like, it's gonna be hard. So she was more like, oh my god, what are people gonna think? It was interesting too. Because when I had you, your great grandmother, because she's from a completely different era, she referred to as like colored. And umm, she I remember her making a comment to me like oh, well she can go and visit this person because they can't see and I was like, Oh, absolutely not. Like that was probably the only I didn't really have a whole lot of people that said anything ever to me. But like little comments like that that still to this day, I'll never forget.

STEPH 8:04

At any point in time Dad, did you ever think like I'm having a biracial baby like my kid is going to be white?

DAD 8:15

Nawww I ain't think that. I ain't think of it like that.

STEPH 8:24

Did you mom ever talk about like our kid is gonna be biracial or our kid is gonna be black and white or was it just like I'm having like it was just having a kid?

DAD 8:32

I mean don't be caught up in the whole biracial or black and white. I mean times were a lot different then than they are now.

STEPH

Different how?

DAD

Because I don't even call all this biracial thing going on. People talking about biracial. I mean at that point, you were either, you're Black or you're White.

STEPH 8:59

So then what did you consider me?

DAD 9:01

My child.

STEPH 9:07

Yeah but like your black child or your white child if I wasn't a biracial child.

DAD 9:11

black then you’re black. In: 1924

STEPH 9:31

Did you know any other people that had mixed kids?

MOM 9:35

No, I didn't know anybody that had kids. So I think that's what my focus was on that I was young, a young mom, not who you were what you look like, I was this young mom thinking oh my god, how am I gonna pay the bills tomorrow? Where are we going to live? Like, obviously I know that people say, Oh, your daughter's mixed. Oh, you're white. I just never looked at things like that. I honestly just don't look at people like that I just look at, are we having fun? Or is if are people good? Am I happy? Like, you know, I guess I judge people more on are they nice people or not nice people. Are they like me? Are they not like me than? I don't know skin color, I guess or ethnicity or race or I just always have had that. So I can't, I can't say well, it will say, Oh, no, you don't know. No. I don't know. Like, I guess maybe oblivious to it. oblivious to it, because I've just never really had anybody that really said anything to me. Being oblivious to race is a privilege I have never known. We never talked about race growing up, in my family. There’s also this idea of midwestern kindness, the stereotype that people from the midwest are unusually polite, more reserved and even a little passive aggressive. Being midwest nice creates a limitation around controversial conversations. It’s been my experience as a mixed kid growing up in Wisconsin, that talking about race is seen as impolite, but making racist comments is common practice. The only comments I guess I really heard was, they were like, if people saw me with you, people would say oh, she dates Black guys.

STEPH: 10:52

And how did that make you feel? That assumption?

MOM: 10:55

And I was like, No, I date, guys. So I just never I always thought that that was an odd. I always thought that was like an odd thing.

STEPH: 11:10

But also Ma I know your dating record. I'm just gonna say it. I've never known you to date a White or an Asian or Mexican man.

MOM: 11:22

Well, when I was when I after I had you. I still talked I was kind of seeing Chad.

DAD: 11:30

Was mom like the first white person that you had dated? Or was that not a thing? Oh, she wanted the first white person? Like, is it different dating a white female than it is a black female? Naw they all go crazy.

DAD: 11:42

They all crazy.

DAD: 11:44

That was a joke.

MOM

We did argue a lot. But we always supported each other. He would never let anything happen to you most definitely. But me neither he was, you know, he knew I was a good mom. I mean, we have a child together. He always made sure. And that's how grandpa was always made sure that we had what we needed. And that was like their role.

STEPH: 12:07

Do you remember when Mom told you that? She wanted to move with me to Green Bay?

DAD: 12:13

At first, I didn't. I didn't want you to go to Green Bay.

STEPH

Why not?

DAD

Because I didn't like Green Bay. It was nothing about Green Bay. I like. And I didin't want you to be having, you know,a somewhat sheltered life.

STEPH: 12:29

Yeah, sheltered. How?

DAD:

Because you would have been around all uh predominantly White people.

STEPH: 12:36

Yeah, what worried you about that?

DAD: 12:39

I don't think it was worry. I just didn't want you to I want you to have experience of you know, have a well rounded experience. I wanted you to see different cultures. Yeah, I know. You wouldn't do that in Green Bay.

MOM: 12:53

Your dad never agreed of us being a part. But I knew from when you were little that you were really smart. I said, this is not going to work with her going to school here. Because the school systems are not the greatest in Milwaukee. The public school system in Milwaukee has its fair share of inner city school district issues. A lack of economic resources, short staffed, overworked teachers and behavioral issues in children that are a result of unstable living situations. My dad is an educator, he has been since I was a kid. And It’s always been important to him to serve the community that raised him.

DAD: 13:10

Nah. I mean all the schools, it was some schools that were bad. But you didn't have to go to those... You wasn't going to those schools. You was at --I think you were at Hartford anyway. That was a good school. This is true. I think she went more for-- for her. What do you mean? Because I mean, I was always there. I mean, my family was providing a lot of help, but I think she'd wanted she it was something that she needed that she wanted. So she wanted to go back to where she came from which I get that and it makes sense. I understand it. Cuz I don't think, her friends wasn't I mean, they were still friends, but they wasn't like, I don't think they were all the way open and willing to help. So when she was here, I mean, she was just she had to rely on me and my side of family all the time, because she ain't have nobody else here. And this was my thinking to paraphrase. And that's not to say her friends were just abandoned her or whatever. I'm not saying that but

STEPH: 14:16

I mean, you guys were how old. Like what in your early 20s? Like, I get that?

DAD: 14:21

Yes, yeah. about twenty. twenty-one maybe

STEPH: 14:28

Did you and mom ever talk about that like me going up like you're concerns about me going to Green Bay and only being around white people? Did you tell her that?

DAD: 14:41

I'm pretty sure I did but like I say understood what I understood what it was about.

MOM: 14:50

You always seemed okay with being around White people. And I think that's I think that was a big just part of you, right getting being raised. Is that you'd come to Green Bay it's a little bit country a little bit slower. And then I would drop you off in Milwaukee in the inner city. And it was a whole different ball game. But you grandma used to always say, that you would turn, turn it on and off, like you'd have to certain way when you were in Green Bay. And you'd act a certain way when you went to your parents, your grandparents and Milwaukee. And umm, it was interesting. I guess. I never noticed it. I saw but grandma used to always say oh, I can tell Stephanie was that her grandparents and Milwaukee? Queen of the code switch. I’ve always prided myself on my ability to blend in anywhere but growing up I actually always stood out, so I relied on my ability to code switch to disarm my peers and neutralize situations so others can feel comfortable in my presence. I know there's mixed kids out there that can relate.

STEPH: 15:33

For someone who like isn't familiar at all with Wisconsin, what would you say are like the differences between the 53206 and Green Bay? And I say 53206 and not Milwaukee? Because I feel like 53206 is a specific part of Milwaukee. But like, what are the differences between there and Green Bay?

DAD: 15:54

Green Bay? Oh, wow. So well, let me, so let me try to answer with my experience of Green Bay. So like, when I was going up there with your, your mom and then I was with her friends and all--obviously I was pretty much the only black person up there, with all them. But, I mean, I was taller. I looked older so I could, they would let me buy beer or whatever. So I mean, I was okay around them. But then later going out around there. I see. It was a, it was more Black people there than I thought. But they all go out there and they try to act tough. Yeah. Are they hard go up there like one rob people with guns, you know, trying to sell drugs, you know, fight and do all this other stuff, where I know that if they was in their city, because make it in the city, so they go up there and try to act like something they're not. And that was one of the things I didn't like about, about Green Bay. Because it seemed like all the Black people was trying to be like something they weren't and I say all, I mean, I know I'm generalizing, but majority of the ones I would see out. And mostly guys. They just try to go up there and they act tough. So like, you know, comparing that to like 53206, I mean, it's a little different, because they're not acting tough. They are tough. Recently Green Bay was listed as the #3 best small towns to live in the U.S. and I think with a small town lifestyle racism runs rampant. The most recent census shows that the population of Black people in Green Bay grew by 63%, that’s 75,000 more Black people in the small town today than when I left after graduating in 2010. But the fastest growing rate…People who represent two or more races. This population of people in the region more than tripled in number in the past decade. Even with its growing diversity, Green Bay isn’t without its problems.

STEPH: 17:28

We never really did talk about race. So like, I remember being surprised that you were surprised that it was something that I struggled with, especially living in Green Bay, because it was just so like, I don't know, if you remember the race riot that happened at my high school the year before I went there

MOM

No.

STEPH

e. And oh, you know about the: 53206

STEPH: 19:15

No, because you made the comment one time to some kids were talking to a certain way and you said we don't talk like that because your dad obviously talked very proper. So even though like you said you're in the inner city. That's not how that the stereotype of how inner city talks acts. That's not how your family was.

DAD: 19:41

It's gonna be crazy to say but I'm glad I came up on 18th and Locust, I mean, I helped shape who I was. I am

STEPH: 19:54

What are some of the lessons you think growing up on 18th taught you?

DAD: 20:01

taught me how to be humble, taught me how to help others help others taught me how to appreciate what I do have. They taught me to work, work hard for things that I want. taught me how to treat people how to treat others that are less off, less fortunate who might be perceived as being bums on welfare. Taught me discipline, and it's not just 18th. Like I remember umm 24th and Howard, thats where we lived 24th place right up the street from the church. And the guy next door to me was a old man. I mean,he would sit and go , I don't know, he would always make fans out of popsicle sticks. Yeah, I remember he used to sit down and you know, just, you know, talk to me. Show me how to make make the fans and just make us some. And, you know, some of the things I remember exactly what we talked about all the time, but I'm sure subconsciously it's in there. Because I remember you know, I remember him vividly. I remember seeing the person who coming up to black who used to be, you know, the prom queen and now they a crack head.

DAD: 21:24

Yeah, and you can learn a lot. I mean, they they still had, I mean, they still had some sense. I mean, I guess depending on the drugs.

STEPH: 21:35

It sounds like you taught you a lot of empathy

DAD: 21:41

taught me a lot of things. Not to judge a book by its cover. Not to think you too high or on you above anybody else. But not to think that you below anybody else either.

STEPH: 21:59

Dad what do you think about the term mixed?

DAD: 22:07

I don't like it.

STEPH: 22:09

What don't you like about it?

DAD: 22:16

Because it just makes you seem like it can be synonymous with all mixed up and you know, crazy in the head. I just don't understand why it has to be all that. I mean, I don't but I'm not for all this, you know, race calling and all that. I mean, I just feel like we all human beings, what's all this other stuff about? But that's just my line of thinking. Not everybody agrees with that.

STEPH: 22:39

What do you think is like a better term? For mixed? Like, what are we calling it? What do we say?

DAD: 22:51

I don't know. Why does it have to be a term anyway? Why can't you just be Stephanie? Why we can't just be people? Why can't we just be a human being? I mean, do you think that you? You act different because you you have a white? A white mother and a black father? Act different than what? That's what I'm saying? Do you think you act different that you are different? Because you have white? A white mother and a black father? No. I mean, it's the other stimuli or things that you react to other people how they react to as you that shape how you are. But no matter what, you just you.

STEPH: 23:32

So then, when you think about me, like do you think of me as white or black or multiracial?

MOM: 23:43

I just think of you as my daughter. I don't think the other thing is I don't look at your dad and say oh my god, that's my daughter's father he's black like I don't think like that. Well, that's my daughter. She's mixed and you look at me and think Oh, that's my mom. She's white.

STEPH: 23:58

No, the second thing that I say. I’m going to call out the fact that I just lied to my mother. Sorry Mom. And not intentionally, but I had never really thought about it, until she asked, but if I’m being honest now, YES I do think that’s my mother she’s white, because I’ve been conditioned to. From the time I was a small child people would ask me, if that was really my mother, how was that my mother, what is my mother’s background. My own identity is an extension of my ancestors and that includes my white mom.

DAD: 24:06

Well I mean it's people like that on both sides. Yeah. You know that right? Wait. I mean it's a White person, it's White people on mama side too.

DAD: 24:20

I mean, listen, I feel like everywhere right like white and black have been mixing forever so I'm not surprised by any of this like But

DAD: 24:28

mix is a little different the way they're made

STEPH: 24:34

Wait Dad . Hold on You cut out real quick. You can you say that again?

Dad can you hear me

[At this point the audio starts to cut out just as we begin talking about the tough stuff. But, I know exactly what my dad is saying. I’m not the only one in our family who is mixed and me being mixed is different from the origin stories of my mixed ancestors. ]

DAD: 24:39

the mix. The mix is a little different on Mama side I was like, white man. It's some stories and some of them I just heard recently. Like I think a white. White man killed my great grandfather. Yeah, in Alabama. Yeah, but it's all where Mama from. Like, you know, Mama I told you the stuff but she won't even she won't talk about but

STEPH: 25:10

Yeah, it's a lot of trauma.

DAD: 25:11

Well, yeah, you said your I mean hangings. seeing the strange fruit you know, that's really you know used to call it.

STEPH: 25:23

what they used to call when people were when like when lynchings happened?

DAD: 25:29

when they were lynching

DAD: 25:32

they called it

STEPH: 25:34

strange fruit. Wow.

tradition in our family since: 1951

DAD

You should know where you came from. I mean, like I say for you know, health reasons or this and that, but other than that, but you does it have to be a classification of oh, well, she's white. Oh, he's black and all that? I mean, what what's the purpose of that?

My dad and I share this same sense of pride about where we’re from. From the backwoods of Alabama, to the northside of Milwaukee, and for me, small town Green Bay. I’m grateful for the lessons I’ve learned from being of these places while also being othered in these places. I’ve always struggled with the paradox of not wanting my identity to define me but also wanting to define myself with a simple identity. But being Mixed isn’t simple. In this country, it can be complicated but knowing where we’re from can give us context but it doesn’t have to define us.

And, if we’re not defined by where we’re from, we’re defined by who we are as people. But doesn’t our life experience make up who we are? Our character, our circumstances, our culture are all a part of our identity.

STEPH: 25:56

What is your culture?

DAD

I'm from the hood that's my culture.

STEPH

What is your race?

DAD: 26:10

Human race.